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	<title>Comments on: Eisner Watch, Pt. 1: Bodyworld, Finder</title>
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	<link>http://webcomicoverlook.com/2009/05/01/eisner-watch-pt-1-bodyworld-finder/</link>
	<description>Webcomic reviews are serious business.</description>
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		<title>By: The 2010 Eisner Nominations have arrived! &#171; The Webcomic Overlook</title>
		<link>http://webcomicoverlook.com/2009/05/01/eisner-watch-pt-1-bodyworld-finder/#comment-4436</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The 2010 Eisner Nominations have arrived! &#171; The Webcomic Overlook]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Apr 2010 18:37:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://webcomicoverlook.com/?p=2485#comment-4436</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Bayou), I&#8217;d say that this is a fairly strong list this time around. Last year, I wrote a two-part overview of the 2009 Eisner nominees. I plan on doing the same thing next month. So watch this [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Bayou), I&#8217;d say that this is a fairly strong list this time around. Last year, I wrote a two-part overview of the 2009 Eisner nominees. I plan on doing the same thing next month. So watch this [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Strip Features &#124; Strip News &#124; ArtPatient.com &#124; ArtPatient.com</title>
		<link>http://webcomicoverlook.com/2009/05/01/eisner-watch-pt-1-bodyworld-finder/#comment-1638</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Strip Features &#124; Strip News &#124; ArtPatient.com &#124; ArtPatient.com]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 14:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://webcomicoverlook.com/?p=2485#comment-1638</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Gastrophobia and Side B. The Webcomic Overlook returns from its April hiatus with some thoughts on Bodyworld and Finder and The Lady&#8217;s Murder, Vs and Speak No Evil. This Week in Webcomics reviewed SuperFogeys [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Gastrophobia and Side B. The Webcomic Overlook returns from its April hiatus with some thoughts on Bodyworld and Finder and The Lady&#8217;s Murder, Vs and Speak No Evil. This Week in Webcomics reviewed SuperFogeys [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bengo</title>
		<link>http://webcomicoverlook.com/2009/05/01/eisner-watch-pt-1-bodyworld-finder/#comment-1636</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bengo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 18:48:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://webcomicoverlook.com/?p=2485#comment-1636</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@El Santo
I think a webcomic site can be an experience without using Flash or much animation. And I think a comic can be presented so that it will translate to print without the site looking like a mere stack of pages.

May I offer a few examples?

Dynamic images, which pull randomly from an archive whenever the page refreshes, don&#039;t cause tech problems but add vitality.

Coherent design of the site as a whole, rather than just the landing page with other pages added, makes it more of a destination and brings out the full potential of the site.

Consider a comic like Cyanide and Happiness, which has short comic videos on YouTube. Making them available onsite is not interfering with the book&#039;s ability to present the comic -- and shouldn&#039;t the book encourage visits to the site anyway, by mentioning additional material?

I&#039;ll keep this list short by linking to an article I wrote that is more comprehensive: http://floatinglightbulb.blogspot.com/2009/04/koolstuff.html

I agree, beware of technologies that put readers off, no matter how cool they are.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@El Santo<br />
I think a webcomic site can be an experience without using Flash or much animation. And I think a comic can be presented so that it will translate to print without the site looking like a mere stack of pages.</p>
<p>May I offer a few examples?</p>
<p>Dynamic images, which pull randomly from an archive whenever the page refreshes, don&#8217;t cause tech problems but add vitality.</p>
<p>Coherent design of the site as a whole, rather than just the landing page with other pages added, makes it more of a destination and brings out the full potential of the site.</p>
<p>Consider a comic like Cyanide and Happiness, which has short comic videos on YouTube. Making them available onsite is not interfering with the book&#8217;s ability to present the comic &#8212; and shouldn&#8217;t the book encourage visits to the site anyway, by mentioning additional material?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll keep this list short by linking to an article I wrote that is more comprehensive: <a href="http://floatinglightbulb.blogspot.com/2009/04/koolstuff.html" rel="nofollow">http://floatinglightbulb.blogspot.com/2009/04/koolstuff.html</a></p>
<p>I agree, beware of technologies that put readers off, no matter how cool they are.</p>
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		<title>By: El Santo</title>
		<link>http://webcomicoverlook.com/2009/05/01/eisner-watch-pt-1-bodyworld-finder/#comment-1635</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[El Santo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 18:00:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://webcomicoverlook.com/?p=2485#comment-1635</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;Nawlz&lt;/em&gt; is about the only online comic that comes to mind that can&#039;t fully be translated to the printed page (what with Sutu using a lot of flash animation and hyperlinks in his work).  However, I&#039;m still on the fence over whether that&#039;s the way to go with webcomics.  It seems very labor intensive to put together, and might be at odds with the natural flow a creator has with capturing his or her vision.  (Translation: it&#039;s tough enough to put your ideas down using a pen and paper!)  Plus, a lot of folks seem to find Flash interfaces disorienting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Nawlz</em> is about the only online comic that comes to mind that can&#8217;t fully be translated to the printed page (what with Sutu using a lot of flash animation and hyperlinks in his work).  However, I&#8217;m still on the fence over whether that&#8217;s the way to go with webcomics.  It seems very labor intensive to put together, and might be at odds with the natural flow a creator has with capturing his or her vision.  (Translation: it&#8217;s tough enough to put your ideas down using a pen and paper!)  Plus, a lot of folks seem to find Flash interfaces disorienting.</p>
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		<title>By: El Santo</title>
		<link>http://webcomicoverlook.com/2009/05/01/eisner-watch-pt-1-bodyworld-finder/#comment-1634</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[El Santo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 17:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://webcomicoverlook.com/?p=2485#comment-1634</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Christopher: In regards to Ms. McNeil&#039;s art... it&#039;s not bad per se, and I wouldn&#039;t go so far as saying I dislike it.  It&#039;s kinda like the Pini&#039;s work in Elfquest, if I can make a comparison.  However, I didn&#039;t seem to be anything more than serviceable.  I didn&#039;t feel the strong connection between art and story like I did for the other 4 nominees.  It was just ... sorta there.  Maybe that&#039;s why I was a bit vague: I&#039;m equally having a hard time finding things I like and finding things I didn&#039;t like.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christopher: In regards to Ms. McNeil&#8217;s art&#8230; it&#8217;s not bad per se, and I wouldn&#8217;t go so far as saying I dislike it.  It&#8217;s kinda like the Pini&#8217;s work in Elfquest, if I can make a comparison.  However, I didn&#8217;t seem to be anything more than serviceable.  I didn&#8217;t feel the strong connection between art and story like I did for the other 4 nominees.  It was just &#8230; sorta there.  Maybe that&#8217;s why I was a bit vague: I&#8217;m equally having a hard time finding things I like and finding things I didn&#8217;t like.</p>
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		<title>By: Bengo</title>
		<link>http://webcomicoverlook.com/2009/05/01/eisner-watch-pt-1-bodyworld-finder/#comment-1633</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bengo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 16:29:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://webcomicoverlook.com/?p=2485#comment-1633</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Christopher

I prefer print, too, though I am watching these Kindle-type devices with interest. But there are thousands who can and do read online for whatever reason, and I enjoy taking advantage of online technology to create a fuller experience. This is empty talk right now, because I won&#039;t be introducing my own site designed with online in mind for at least a few more weeks, when LilNyet.com goes from its current weak design to something new. (My other comics will follow throughout the summer.) And I can&#039;t say I&#039;ve solved all the problems; there is still too much clicking for my taste, though we&#039;ve pretty much beaten the scrolling.

Having independently produced books, print comics and online comics, I have to say that from a creator standpoint online cost structures and profit potential are far more appealing.

My solution is to try to make my webcomics as user friendly and &quot;web fun&quot; as possible, and look toward the day when I can offer print anthologies. And not saddle-stitched throwaways, either, but something that is rewarding to hold, read, and own. I figure if the webcomic makes money and the print anthology breaks even, I am doing great. (For clarity, I should mention that I am both a seasoned entrepreneur and creator of a new generation webcomic business model that is not quite done and not yet publicly released, but which gives me enough optimism to think that more people will make a living from their webcomics in the future. I am not trying to be provocative, it&#039;s just that this is a serious and challenging undertaking and such things take time. Not to mention, I could yet fail at the attempt.)

But yeah, plant a tree today, print must never die.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Christopher</p>
<p>I prefer print, too, though I am watching these Kindle-type devices with interest. But there are thousands who can and do read online for whatever reason, and I enjoy taking advantage of online technology to create a fuller experience. This is empty talk right now, because I won&#8217;t be introducing my own site designed with online in mind for at least a few more weeks, when LilNyet.com goes from its current weak design to something new. (My other comics will follow throughout the summer.) And I can&#8217;t say I&#8217;ve solved all the problems; there is still too much clicking for my taste, though we&#8217;ve pretty much beaten the scrolling.</p>
<p>Having independently produced books, print comics and online comics, I have to say that from a creator standpoint online cost structures and profit potential are far more appealing.</p>
<p>My solution is to try to make my webcomics as user friendly and &#8220;web fun&#8221; as possible, and look toward the day when I can offer print anthologies. And not saddle-stitched throwaways, either, but something that is rewarding to hold, read, and own. I figure if the webcomic makes money and the print anthology breaks even, I am doing great. (For clarity, I should mention that I am both a seasoned entrepreneur and creator of a new generation webcomic business model that is not quite done and not yet publicly released, but which gives me enough optimism to think that more people will make a living from their webcomics in the future. I am not trying to be provocative, it&#8217;s just that this is a serious and challenging undertaking and such things take time. Not to mention, I could yet fail at the attempt.)</p>
<p>But yeah, plant a tree today, print must never die.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://webcomicoverlook.com/2009/05/01/eisner-watch-pt-1-bodyworld-finder/#comment-1632</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christopher]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 14:09:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://webcomicoverlook.com/?p=2485#comment-1632</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;B&gt;Bengo:&lt;/B&gt; I have &lt;I&gt;never&lt;/I&gt; read a webcomic that wouldn&#039;t have been better in print. Looking a computer screen for a long time strains my eyes in a way that print doesn&#039;t, and I have to deal with load times, and I can&#039;t read them on the bus or on the crapper, etc.

I&#039;ve yet to see any comics content on the web that could &lt;I&gt;only&lt;/I&gt; be delivered by computer and yet at the same time was artistically necessary enough to justify the hassle.

I&#039;m not even sure the Eisner&#039;s should have a webcomic award; maybe they should just include them for consideration in the other categories.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Bengo:</b> I have <i>never</i> read a webcomic that wouldn&#8217;t have been better in print. Looking a computer screen for a long time strains my eyes in a way that print doesn&#8217;t, and I have to deal with load times, and I can&#8217;t read them on the bus or on the crapper, etc.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve yet to see any comics content on the web that could <i>only</i> be delivered by computer and yet at the same time was artistically necessary enough to justify the hassle.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not even sure the Eisner&#8217;s should have a webcomic award; maybe they should just include them for consideration in the other categories.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://webcomicoverlook.com/2009/05/01/eisner-watch-pt-1-bodyworld-finder/#comment-1631</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christopher]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 14:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://webcomicoverlook.com/?p=2485#comment-1631</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Regarding Finder: First of all, I agree with everything Minivet said.

To be honest, I hadn&#039;t read the online &lt;I&gt;Finder&lt;/I&gt; until just this moment, because both on Shadowline and McNeil&#039;s site it has a really confusing interface I&#039;ve never had the patience to wrestle through.

Having read it, I can say that it&#039;s very much like that Sam &amp; Max comic, in that it&#039;s a lesser work from a really good cartoonist, and one that isn&#039;t anywhere near the pinnacle of their work.

The main problem is that the whole story of the ring and beauty pageant/clan confirmation ceremony is a small beat in some very long running character arcs. Rachel, Marcie and Lynn were some of the protagonists in &lt;I&gt;Sin Eater&lt;/I&gt;, the first story arc in the comic, and that arc really set up all of this. &lt;I&gt;Sin Eater&lt;/I&gt; actually takes place several years before the events of the online material, which brings me to one of the things I like about &lt;I&gt;Finder&lt;/I&gt;; the scope of it. Watching these characters age, and seeing how events set in motion years ago play themselves out is pretty interesting for me, and it&#039;s not something that happens in too many comics.

I found this story to be kind of moving, and it really made me want to know what&#039;s going to happen next, because I know who all these characters are, what they&#039;re doing, why they&#039;re doing it, and how they got to be in the situation they&#039;re in. But if you don&#039;t know these things, I don&#039;t think you can divine them from the material.

Additionally, and you really don&#039;t get a sense of it from this particular arc, &lt;I&gt;Finder&lt;/I&gt; has some very complex and fascinating world-building, something it manages to accomplish while still having a very solid focus on characters. It&#039;s that scope, which doesn&#039;t really come through here, that really attracts me to the comic. &lt;I&gt;Finder&lt;/I&gt; has numerous plotlines that range over wide spans of time, space, and social class.

It&#039;s a dense comic. When you read a &lt;I&gt;Finder&lt;/I&gt; comic, you get a comic that generally has way more stuff to mull over and think about than any comic of comparable length.

McNeil does have some problems with plotting, though; I only got to the end of the &lt;I&gt;Sin Eater&lt;/I&gt; story recently, and it had what I found to be an anti-climactic ending. More then that, I really don&#039;t understand what Jaeger, one of the core characters, thought he was doing when he did... well, it would take too much to get into here.

But I think that same problem with plotting pops up here; Somehow, McNeil has put the episode of &lt;I&gt;Finder&lt;/I&gt; that stands alone the &lt;I&gt;least&lt;/I&gt; online, where people are most likely to come across it without having any prior knowledge of the series. If you came across this as &quot;Finder, issue 62&quot; you might just figure you needed more background to understand it and you&#039;d go back to issue one to find out what you&#039;d missed. Putting it online makes people see it as more of a standalone thing, which it really isn&#039;t.

And that&#039;s pretty odd, because most individual &lt;I&gt;Finder&lt;/I&gt; graphic novels are pretty self-contained. I&#039;m guessing that this was just the part of the story she wanted to write next, and she didn&#039;t think about how it would be received differently on the web, or how it would read on its own, separated from the larger context.

Artwise, I like McNeil&#039;s art. It&#039;s a little hard for me to defend, though, because you&#039;re so vague about what you dislike about it. One thing I do notice is that she seems to be trying a somewhat more realistic style for the faces in this one, and they&#039;re stiffer then they are in most of her work.

Another little detail that I found interesting is that all the non-clan people are shown in silhouette, or not at all. Which, again, is a detail that you really won&#039;t notice unless you understand the significance of the whole clan thing.

I don&#039;t know; there&#039;s all kinds of details and character moments that interest me as a fan, but you&#039;ve really come in in the middle of the story. It&#039;s totally fair to review it that way, since that&#039;s how it&#039;s sort of advertised, but I really think it&#039;s something to keep in mind. You shouldn&#039;t dismiss a work just on the basis of having read the middle and not understood it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding Finder: First of all, I agree with everything Minivet said.</p>
<p>To be honest, I hadn&#8217;t read the online <i>Finder</i> until just this moment, because both on Shadowline and McNeil&#8217;s site it has a really confusing interface I&#8217;ve never had the patience to wrestle through.</p>
<p>Having read it, I can say that it&#8217;s very much like that Sam &amp; Max comic, in that it&#8217;s a lesser work from a really good cartoonist, and one that isn&#8217;t anywhere near the pinnacle of their work.</p>
<p>The main problem is that the whole story of the ring and beauty pageant/clan confirmation ceremony is a small beat in some very long running character arcs. Rachel, Marcie and Lynn were some of the protagonists in <i>Sin Eater</i>, the first story arc in the comic, and that arc really set up all of this. <i>Sin Eater</i> actually takes place several years before the events of the online material, which brings me to one of the things I like about <i>Finder</i>; the scope of it. Watching these characters age, and seeing how events set in motion years ago play themselves out is pretty interesting for me, and it&#8217;s not something that happens in too many comics.</p>
<p>I found this story to be kind of moving, and it really made me want to know what&#8217;s going to happen next, because I know who all these characters are, what they&#8217;re doing, why they&#8217;re doing it, and how they got to be in the situation they&#8217;re in. But if you don&#8217;t know these things, I don&#8217;t think you can divine them from the material.</p>
<p>Additionally, and you really don&#8217;t get a sense of it from this particular arc, <i>Finder</i> has some very complex and fascinating world-building, something it manages to accomplish while still having a very solid focus on characters. It&#8217;s that scope, which doesn&#8217;t really come through here, that really attracts me to the comic. <i>Finder</i> has numerous plotlines that range over wide spans of time, space, and social class.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a dense comic. When you read a <i>Finder</i> comic, you get a comic that generally has way more stuff to mull over and think about than any comic of comparable length.</p>
<p>McNeil does have some problems with plotting, though; I only got to the end of the <i>Sin Eater</i> story recently, and it had what I found to be an anti-climactic ending. More then that, I really don&#8217;t understand what Jaeger, one of the core characters, thought he was doing when he did&#8230; well, it would take too much to get into here.</p>
<p>But I think that same problem with plotting pops up here; Somehow, McNeil has put the episode of <i>Finder</i> that stands alone the <i>least</i> online, where people are most likely to come across it without having any prior knowledge of the series. If you came across this as &#8220;Finder, issue 62&#8243; you might just figure you needed more background to understand it and you&#8217;d go back to issue one to find out what you&#8217;d missed. Putting it online makes people see it as more of a standalone thing, which it really isn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>And that&#8217;s pretty odd, because most individual <i>Finder</i> graphic novels are pretty self-contained. I&#8217;m guessing that this was just the part of the story she wanted to write next, and she didn&#8217;t think about how it would be received differently on the web, or how it would read on its own, separated from the larger context.</p>
<p>Artwise, I like McNeil&#8217;s art. It&#8217;s a little hard for me to defend, though, because you&#8217;re so vague about what you dislike about it. One thing I do notice is that she seems to be trying a somewhat more realistic style for the faces in this one, and they&#8217;re stiffer then they are in most of her work.</p>
<p>Another little detail that I found interesting is that all the non-clan people are shown in silhouette, or not at all. Which, again, is a detail that you really won&#8217;t notice unless you understand the significance of the whole clan thing.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know; there&#8217;s all kinds of details and character moments that interest me as a fan, but you&#8217;ve really come in in the middle of the story. It&#8217;s totally fair to review it that way, since that&#8217;s how it&#8217;s sort of advertised, but I really think it&#8217;s something to keep in mind. You shouldn&#8217;t dismiss a work just on the basis of having read the middle and not understood it.</p>
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		<title>By: Journalista - the news weblog of The Comics Journal &#187; Blog Archive &#187; May 5, 2009: Hope fell</title>
		<link>http://webcomicoverlook.com/2009/05/01/eisner-watch-pt-1-bodyworld-finder/#comment-1610</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Journalista - the news weblog of The Comics Journal &#187; Blog Archive &#187; May 5, 2009: Hope fell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 09:04:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://webcomicoverlook.com/?p=2485#comment-1610</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] The Eisner nominees Link: Larry Cruz (one, [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Eisner nominees Link: Larry Cruz (one, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: El Santo</title>
		<link>http://webcomicoverlook.com/2009/05/01/eisner-watch-pt-1-bodyworld-finder/#comment-1601</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[El Santo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 18:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://webcomicoverlook.com/?p=2485#comment-1601</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Incidentally, if I would have compiled my own list of Eisner nominees, I would at least have included &quot;Anders Loves Maria&quot; by Rene Engstrom.  I didn&#039;t give it a five-star rating on this site, but that was partially because I think the story has been dragging on for too long (to the detriment of the once sympathetic characters).  In early 2008, it was very much a break-out sensation.  It was simultaneously heart-breaking and funny, and it examined how far two naive lovers could go before figuring out they couldn&#039;t go any further.

In addition, I highly admire Ms. Engstrom&#039;s work ethic to get her name out.  I think she traveled all the way here to a few webcomic conventions, which is a bit of a feat for someone based in Sweden.  Plus, she&#039;s been a fairly open and helpful person online (to a fault... I think she shut her comments section for a while due to a creepy online stalker).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Incidentally, if I would have compiled my own list of Eisner nominees, I would at least have included &#8220;Anders Loves Maria&#8221; by Rene Engstrom.  I didn&#8217;t give it a five-star rating on this site, but that was partially because I think the story has been dragging on for too long (to the detriment of the once sympathetic characters).  In early 2008, it was very much a break-out sensation.  It was simultaneously heart-breaking and funny, and it examined how far two naive lovers could go before figuring out they couldn&#8217;t go any further.</p>
<p>In addition, I highly admire Ms. Engstrom&#8217;s work ethic to get her name out.  I think she traveled all the way here to a few webcomic conventions, which is a bit of a feat for someone based in Sweden.  Plus, she&#8217;s been a fairly open and helpful person online (to a fault&#8230; I think she shut her comments section for a while due to a creepy online stalker).</p>
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